with Franco Cookson. Mental preparation, castles, and guaranteed failure.

First broadcast 3 January 2023

Franco Cookson⁠ is climber and the star of ⁠Fall Theory, a film by Alistair Lee that premiered in 2021⁠, and which follows Franco completing the first ascent of an incredibly dangerous route called the Immortal in North Yorkshire.

We talk about my guesses of things Franco may not have finished (two climbing routes and an article it turns out he doesn’t remember writing). We then cover how having unfinished climbing projects is inevitable (since at some point failure is guaranteed), how climbing routes take on personalities as more people complete them, and about the importance of thinking through what could go wrong in preparation for doing a climb.

I happened to speak to Franco on his very first day as a fully professional climber, so we also speak about the socio-economic barriers to going professional, the possible effects of social media on the process, and why you’re probably doing it wrong if you enjoy doing promotion too much.

There are also bits about castles in Northumberland, about how the pupils Franco used to teach didn’t know he was also a climber, about Franco’s enthusiasm for climbers who aren’t from the normal climbing areas, and – right at the end – a bit about a play Franco started to write while at university in Manchester.

Photo credit: Alistair Lee